[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Cran

Twisted or not, the teychings of Jesus are indeed of absolutely no consequence to me.

I see. you are not interested in spiritual writings of the past. But are interested in what this darkworking idea is of Steve's.

I wouldn't put DW-syndrom as to much taking, but stepping on to many toes by taking - i.e. acting unwise and too much upon the first impulse. Taking per se is nothing that would constitute a syndrome.

So the DW syndrom is more so about actually ending up hurting people? Is that what you are saying? But then I thought DW don't care about that. Oh, they only care if someone gets hurt in such a way as to be no benefit to the DW anymore. hmm...

I donot think you get my point when I am saying that it takes effgort to give, too. It takes effort to figure out HOW to give exactly as it takes effort to figure out to take (it will require the same amount of thinking how to avoid giving that unloved aunt a birthday present as to think about it how the mutual dislike of the aunt can be turned into something more lw-like). Therefore, I regard your point that a DW would have to put more thinking-effort into his polarization than a LW as invalid.

maybe the too much giving is where it takes effort to give - to avoid being a LW syndrome candidate. and the same with DW taking - if they take too much they are in the syndrome and in danger of killing the golden goose.

What is the point to benefit more people than just myself, as you write about LWs? Sure, the wordl will get better and everything... honestly, I do not care about the world. Therefore, creating benefits for the world is no benefit to me. Of course, long term, this will damage the world I am living in, but until that point arrives I'll be safely dead.

this is the issue that the world is facing that you seem to not care about - it is sad to me. You are only able to feel this way because you have lost you feeling of connection to nature and hardened your view of what self is. And how do you know how well off the world is? How do you know it's not going to effect you? It can be too late by the time something bites back.

What makes you think being DW is being disconntected in every case? Just because you feel that way if trying to get something from people doesn't make that an universal experience. I do not feel disconnected, au contraire: Very connected. i am very aware of my needs and of the people around me. To have friends and family and be connected with them is also a need of mine (and of most people, I assume).

well, then my DW definition is wrong or something. but what you write there almost sounds like being a LW.

DW doesn't mean being absolutely self-sufficient. My feelings toward people I like and love are no different than that of a LW. But I do not extend this to the whole world as many of them do. No purpose in that for me.

I thought DW are about self. and getting stuff for self from others. That means being connected in one way - of viewing "others" as something to take from. the connection is of viewing "others" as not me. Is that a connection? Or a rejection and polarizing - me and them. And if a DW isn't self-sufficient then they rely on others and that goes into LW world stuff. LWs know others are there for them and vice versa.

You ust claim that self-service equals the fear that there is not enough. I can't speak for everybody, but I do not feel and act upon this impulse. Everything is there, and enough for everybody, but it is at everybody's discretion to take what he wants. Who doesn't want doesn't take and can't bet on just getting things. This it not fear, but acknowleding needs and wants.

ok, I'd say LW have to also acknowledge their needs and wants too or they become syndrome candidates.

For your stance about people being connected and one: This is a metaphyscial approach I do not share. There is imho no such thing as being "one" or being more connected than in the very basic sense that one action leads to another.
I regard man as an animal, nothing more, nothing less. No higher purpose, no being-connected.

sorry, you have lost your sense of awe and wonder. and I see how you regard man as an animal. the earth will suffer after we are all gone, after we all have been DWs for too long. but then it doesn't seem to matter to DWs about what comes after. If a DW has kids, what do they think about handing down a broken earth to their kids?