[jaydeschizo]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

OK, so you only care that someone is able to give you something in return. Giving to someone out of expecting they would give you something back. Then you have to figure out this equation over and over, right? Should I give to this person or not? Would this person return a favor if I do this for them? Maybe I should not give to this one over here because they won't give me anything in return. Is that not tiring to have to always think about what someone else would return to you and use that as a deciding point to give or not?

In cases of the new people I meet, I do wonder is he going to be of use to me or is he going to slow me down.

It's taking a chance, I meet a person, and decide if I will either enjoy that person, or have some value of knowing him. Often I'm right, on occasion I'm wrong, than I cut my losses and the person is exit.

so the DW gives by being motivated in hopes that means getting something from others. But the LW just gives with motivation in seeing it as giving to the whole. is that it?

I believe so, that is how I view it. I am not a LW so I cannot say that is absolutely true from their perspective, but I do believe that is it.

so a DW will always need to figure out how to get, before giving anything. If the DW sees no return they are not motivated to give. A LW gives without worrying about getting, right? What can anyone give anyway? We can only give what we can afford to let go of or we are being a sick LW by giving too much or a hording DW (both of which are stupid - give too much and hording). So what's the difference in a LW that gives and a DW that gives? The LW gives out of knowing giving is to the whole (which is also the LW individual). The DW gives out of expecting the giving to produce returns. How does the DW see these returns? Does the DW see the whole and know the returns will happen?

If I see no return I will not invest my time and resources. But is that not the same for a LW? If there is not greater good for the whole, he will not invest resources. I will do things for my self that require resources, but to get more resources for me I will have to create some sort of value.

I see the returns as mine, I create something and it gives me returns. That is my sole reason to give, I give somethinig of certain value to receive something that I perceive as greater value.

How do you mean the whole? Is there a population out there that is stupid enough to invest resources in stuff they really don't need? Yes. So what's wrong with me providing them that stuff? Nothing. And if they want to pay a premium for a certain logo on the stuff? Excellent. As long as it works out best for me it's all good.

What's the real difference?

LW=knows giving is to the whole.
DW=expects giving to produce returns or only invests in giving when returns are emanate.

Why wouldn't a DW see that giving is to the whole and produces returns no matter what since giving to the whole is also to the DW self? Why wouldn't that be motivating to a DW?

Perhaps that is what a so-called enlightend DW does, I see myself as me, and others as them. To a certain degree there is a we, but I'm still the me in that we. We are a complex and interconnected system of people and surroundings. But we are still interconnected individuals. I give to other individuals, and those individuals will give to me, more than I gave them if I can help it.

I suppose that I do not see myself as part of a whole.

Why is that motivation different than the LW's knowing that giving to the whole produces returns. It almost seems like the DW has a limited view on what the whole is.

Or you have a limited view of what's just a crowd of individuals, in a small space.

That there is not a whole, in the DW's model and there has to be calculations of what/where/who to give to because they think there might not be any returns - that others are separate from the whole and to be feared because they might not provide a return if you give to the wrong person. But the LW doesn't have to calculate all that, they just give and know it is how the universe works - that the universe gives back to those that give, one way or another. "reap what you sow"

Action will always have a return, if not in resources than in lessons. Others are not to be feared, most of them are harmless directionless boobs.