[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Radu

The Universe is infinitely big. We are infinitely small. As such, there is no reason to believe that we have any Grand Purpose, because we cannot possibly affect anything on the grand scale of the Universe.

How is purpose related to our individual ability to affect anything on the grand scale? How do you know that your actions don't effect the grand scale?

We have all of the basic functions and needs of other species of animals. (ie. breathing, eating, homeostasis, sex etc.) We differ from other animals in that we are more intelligent and we are capable of reason. We were not always so - we just evolved and became gradually smarter.

I think the other way around. Animals are must smarter than us. We are very much less capable. Dog hear better. Eagles see better. Dolphins swim swifter. Being intellectually smarter has just gotten us into trouble with mother earth and other humans, and not much else.

This is why I believe we would have to be arrogant to assume that us humans have some Grand Purpose to fulfill. However, do not confuse the idea of a Grand Purpose (such as being an instrument in some divine plan or some other nonsense) with that of a purpose that we set for ourselves.

The purpose is not to be arrogant. The purpose is be to humble.

Neither I nor Stephen (if I understand him correctly) are denying the latter.

If you deny something you are closing down the awe of nature and what is. We all had it as children and society trained us to not see the awe all around us - that is sad.

For myself, I'm just saying that we're not meant to do anything. That there is no grand scheme of things in which we are to play a certain part. That no god created us for any specific reason.

What ever it is you are doing is what is your purpose. You purpose comes from what you identify with or what you don't identify with. If you identify with making your ego happy, then that becomes a purpose - and is also what the divine wants. There's no escaping what is. It's all a grand scheme and we play the roles and parts that we go through - even when we pretend there isn't a plan, that's the plan too.

Rather, by our actions, we ourselves create a reason, a purpose for our existence.

The paradox is that we think we are creating our own plan out of the illusion of being a separate being. When deep down it's Being coming through us experiencing stuff through a focused and constricted point of view.

Of course, I have nothing against anyone believing that they're a part of some divine plan. It may even be true -- we may all be a part of some divine plan. But that this should actually be true - is extremely unlikely.

There's no proof for the divine plan other than there is no way to take the present moment for what it is. It is divine, even the so called illusions that are not to be clinging to. 3d matter is ultimately divine too. The illusion is that we are separate from it all.