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Old 11-29-2006, 05:56 PM   #58 (permalink)
joey m
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Jerry,

You make some very good points here. I think the best point is to live as a role model or inspiration for others. Well put, and I try and live by this ideal.

However, I would to make some comments on your post. I do not think most vegans would or should claim that we should have always been vegans. Therefore everyone who ate meat prior to 60 years ago would not equate to "savages, immoral beasts." Indeed, animal husbandry practices were far more humane and reasonable until the concept of agribusiness evolved rather recently. The comparison to concentration camps comes more from the concept that animals are now kept in such deplorable conditions that they literally spend their whole existence in unimaginable torture. This would not be true, say, for cows who spend their whole existence roaming freely in the alps until the cows are killed for food. It is not killing animals per se that equates to concentration camps.

Second, in the past, we have not had an easy choice to be vegan because there was survival at stake. If we did not eat some meat (at least in most parts of the globe), we could have starved from calorie deficiency. There were certain cultures that were fortunate enough not to need meat to survive because of the vegetation surrounding them, but a lot did. That's fine.

But, now we can no longer make the argument that it is necessary to eat meat to get sufficient calories. Indeed, research shows that a plant based diet results in greater longevity and less disease. The choice now is different than it ever has been. The truth is, whether most people wish to see this or not, eating animal foods is now a luxury -- but it is certainly not essential, nor ideal, for long-term survival.


Lastly, you said

Quote:
Each of us has to find their own moral pathway outside of the handful of basic standards (don't murder people, don't steal, don't lie, etc), but the idea that once you find your own nuanced pathway outside of these basics, you should then hold everyone else to your standard, is illogical and presumptous.
Well, why do you draw the line that murdering people is so bad, but killing animals isn't? However many years ago, being a racist was also fine. Being anti-homosexual is only recently becoming not OK, and in many parts of the country it is considered moral to be anti-homosexual. Why are animals so different? In legal cases, animals were orginally treated as nothing more than property. More recently, though, they have been afforded greater legal standing, and this to me is a good progression.

I can't say I am in agreement with you that everyone needs to find their own pathway when we promote torture and agony to other living, sentient creatures. I think it is our duty to be custodians of this planet and to care for creatures that we have placed under our control. It is a narrow view that the only "standard" is to treat humans well. For my purposes, I would much rather "lie" than be responsible for the death and torture of another living being.

It is also not only about intention, but awareness. Many people do not intend to do harm, but through ignorance they can do harm anyway. One must be aware and informed as well.

Just thoughts.

Best,
Joey
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