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Jerry K · 11-29-2006, 01:46 PM

It is always amazing to me how quickly discussions about veganism can veer into conversations about murder, rate, and specifically Hitler and the holocaust. Fortunately the concept & term "Vegan" was coined in 1944 by Donald Watson, during the holocaust, thereby giving us a convenient cultural touchstone to compare the meat-eating practices that humanity has engaged in for oh, 100,000 or 200,000 years. If the Holocaust hadn't happened, what would vegans compare meat-eating too? I say this as someone who has tried veganism, understands the logic, but also find that eating meat actually does make me feel somewhat healthier. For those who try veganism and find they feel healthier, than they have discovered their own path of eating. But to take a fifty year old philosophy and blow it up into this moral argument that somehow tars all of meat-eating humanity with the brush of murdereres, rapists, and immoral beings, is quite a leap to make. What about people who live in places where meat-eating is a primary source of food, who haven't heard about or discovered veganism? Are they savages, immoral beasts?

The whole veganism as "higher morality" smacks to me of the same arguments that the Christian right uses to justify their attacks on gay people for instance - our bible (or in the case of vegans, Donald's ideas, or for some vegans the actual bible serves as the source) can be interpreted to say that sex/marriage should be between a man and a woman for the sake of procreation. Therefore, gay sex/marriage is bad. Our moral code universally says that killing another human for anything other than self-defense is wrong, but it does not automatically follow that killing an animal for nourishment is wrong.

Each of us has to find their own moral pathway outside of the handful of basic standards (don't murder people, don't steal, don't lie, etc), but the idea that once you find your own nuanced pathway outside of these basics, you should then hold everyone else to your standard, is illogical and presumptous. Would the world be a better place if everyone was vegan? Maybe. It would also be a better place if everyone spent their days lifitng people out of poverty, stopping the destruction of the environment, and teaching illiterate people how to read. So if you're vegan, or an activist, or a peace worker, that is fantastic and you will find yourself in the position of being a role model or inspiration for others. Attacking others for their opposing viewpoints however, regardless of whether the views seem illogical or wrong to you, won't convert anyone. Dropping bombs on people never changed anyone's mind, but leading by example does. Equating eating a hamburger with the murder of millions of people does no service for the argument for veganism. It's all about your intention, whether your eating meats or plants or whatever you're doing.

11-29-2006, 01:46 PM	#57 (permalink)
Jerry K Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The East Village, NYC Posts: 15	The logic/illogic of veganism It is always amazing to me how quickly discussions about veganism can veer into conversations about murder, rate, and specifically Hitler and the holocaust. Fortunately the concept & term "Vegan" was coined in 1944 by Donald Watson, during the holocaust, thereby giving us a convenient cultural touchstone to compare the meat-eating practices that humanity has engaged in for oh, 100,000 or 200,000 years. If the Holocaust hadn't happened, what would vegans compare meat-eating too? I say this as someone who has tried veganism, understands the logic, but also find that eating meat actually does make me feel somewhat healthier. For those who try veganism and find they feel healthier, than they have discovered their own path of eating. But to take a fifty year old philosophy and blow it up into this moral argument that somehow tars all of meat-eating humanity with the brush of murdereres, rapists, and immoral beings, is quite a leap to make. What about people who live in places where meat-eating is a primary source of food, who haven't heard about or discovered veganism? Are they savages, immoral beasts? The whole veganism as "higher morality" smacks to me of the same arguments that the Christian right uses to justify their attacks on gay people for instance - our bible (or in the case of vegans, Donald's ideas, or for some vegans the actual bible serves as the source) can be interpreted to say that sex/marriage should be between a man and a woman for the sake of procreation. Therefore, gay sex/marriage is bad. Our moral code universally says that killing another human for anything other than self-defense is wrong, but it does not automatically follow that killing an animal for nourishment is wrong. Each of us has to find their own moral pathway outside of the handful of basic standards (don't murder people, don't steal, don't lie, etc), but the idea that once you find your own nuanced pathway outside of these basics, you should then hold everyone else to your standard, is illogical and presumptous. Would the world be a better place if everyone was vegan? Maybe. It would also be a better place if everyone spent their days lifitng people out of poverty, stopping the destruction of the environment, and teaching illiterate people how to read. So if you're vegan, or an activist, or a peace worker, that is fantastic and you will find yourself in the position of being a role model or inspiration for others. Attacking others for their opposing viewpoints however, regardless of whether the views seem illogical or wrong to you, won't convert anyone. Dropping bombs on people never changed anyone's mind, but leading by example does. Equating eating a hamburger with the murder of millions of people does no service for the argument for veganism. It's all about your intention, whether your eating meats or plants or whatever you're doing.