[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

In his mind, the idea of consciousness apart from life is as implausible as a computer working after the battery is removed. As evidence, he points to computers and robots that simulate consciousness and to brain probes that "turn off" certain parts of consciousness by direct electrical stimulation.

Dr Peter Fenwick, a prominent neuroscientist, would disagree, because of the results of his research into near-death experiences.

Fenwick has noted many cases of severely injured patients whose brains have shut down (no more electrical activity is detected) and yet when they revive, they give clear, lucid, very coherent accounts of near-death experiences (NDEs).

Fenwick's point is that if consciousness is dependent on the brain, this shold not be possible. The zero level of electrical activity in the brain should not be able to support a hallucination, let alone such a clear, lucid account (which coincidentally turns out to be the same kind of account given by everyone who has ever had an NDE).

Fenwick's further point is that even if it was all a hallucination, the patient should not be able to recall it. This is because the brain has already shut down, such that the memory functions have collapsed.

In other words, the fact that people with zero electrical activity in the brain still do have NDEs demonstrates that consciousness is, or can be, independent of the brain.

Fenwick, by the way, is no cookie scientist, but a highly respected doctor in the medical community.

Anyway, excerpt from one of his speeches. Long speech, so i only give a brief excerpt

Simultaneous recording of heart rate and brain output show that within 11 seconds of the heart stopping, the brainwaves go flat. Now, if you read the literature on this, some skeptical people claim that in this state there is still brain activity, but, in fact, the data are against this in both animals and humans. The brain is not functioning, and you are not going to get your electrical activity back again until the heart restarts.

The flat electroencephalogram (EEG), indicating no brain activity during cardiac arrest, and the high incidence of brain damage afterwards both point to the conclusion that the unconsciousness in cardiac arrest is total. You cannot argue that there are ‘‘bits’’ of the brain that are functioning; there are not. There is a confusional onset and offset, and there is no brain-based memory functioning. Everything that constructs our world for us is, in fact, ‘‘down.’’ There is no possibility of the brain creating any images. Memory is not functioning during this time, so it should be impossible to have clearly structured and lucid experiences, and because of brain damage, memory should be significantly impaired, and you should not be able to remember any experiences which occurred during that time. Now, that raises interesting and difficult questions for us, because the NDErs say that their experiences occur during unconsciousness, and science maintains that this is not possible.

Figure 1
Changes in consciousness during cardiac arrest.


Figure 1 is an illustration I have drawn that I hope is helpful. The height of the line above the x axis shows the intensity of consciousness, and the squiggly line represents the level of consciousness. When the heart stops, the line starts to dip, and consciousness is lost. So you are going along conscious, your heart stops, and there is a very quick descent into unconsciousness. Those of you who have ever fainted will agree that when you faint you lose consciousness very quickly. So you lose consciousness, then you are unconscious, and then the heart restarts, so science says the NDE cannot occur while you are unconsciousness; that is the pink area in the diagram. Now, as you slowly regain consciousness, the slow recovery is all confusional, so the NDE cannot occur there .......