[Erki]

Originally Posted by Honeywith4bees

The problem that I have with discussions over whether or not child birthing SHOULD be painful or not, is that it then leaves those of us who did experience pain as feeling like we must not have done it RIGHT. Just another reason for us woman to be shamed into not feeling like we've not done the birthing process correctly.
Hurray to ever woman who's gone through the process assisted, unassisted, medically intervened or not. Hurray to every woman who's decided not to go through with the birth of a child, for what ever reason, and hurray for every man who's been supportive of those choices and the woman who made them.

Thanks for pointing this out, I didn't even think of this.
"Just another reason"?? Can you name the other reasons why a mother should be ashamed of herself and her ability of birthing? If you'd rather not write them, that's OK too.
I don't think there's anything that they should feel ashamed of. After all they did something that half of the world's population has no hope of doing, even less being "good at it".
I, on the other hand, feel ashamed that I for some reason am saved from the pain. Why?? I most definitely don't deserve it. And enough of myself anyway, those women who had to feel a lot of pain -- did they deserve it?? Surely not.

I also see that I am being offensive even more. I imagine some women who for one reason or other are unable to have children would go through hell or high water, to have that child. And then there's me spouting prattle about how life shouldn't be painful and bla bla bla bla bla bla bla...

Originally Posted by Keith

Childbirth is very, very "right" in evolutionary terms since without it there's no evolution!

Then why did evolution make childbirth potentially very dangerous? Shouldn't evolution have to play it safe, to ensure as much offspring as possible?

Originally Posted by Keith

I would say yes, but not because of the pain. Pregnant mothers go through biological changes including hormonal changes to prepare them for motherhood. ie. Nature primes them to care for the baby. Since fathers don't undergo this biological change, their connection to the baby won't be the same.

They can certainly love the baby, but they won't experience it the same way as the mother. I'm not a father though. (Conversely, since I'll never be a father who's also experienced being a mother that doesn't necessarily make a difference).

But doesn't it suck that should I ever become a father(not anytime soon), I'm always doomed to be inferior to the mother? I can never be as close to the child, I can never feel as if I "went through anything" with her/him, I can never feel the child as a part of myself, I am never needed as much as the mother -- there's nothing like mother's care.

Heh, at the end of the day(post, rather, he he), look what's left of sensitivity or compassionateness or things - it's all about my selfish self. Idiot.