[decterlove]

Rather than debate any of the specific interesting points mentioned above let me just add a few observations to the pot....

I've been feeling totally despondent for several days. I found a book the other day and read a little about one pyschic's take on the after-effects of suicide, and was rather relieved to have her observations that the consequences are not necessarily severe or punishing in any way. This legitimized it for me as a last ditch option if things just get way too much to deal with down the line and paradoxically relieved some of my tension.

I'm in my mid-fifties and fear both aging, chronic poverty, and the abysmal direction the Culture at large is heading. It certainly seems possible from a Christian perspective we are living in an Apocalyptic age. (I consider myself an esoteric Christian, although a very lame one...lol.)

Getting more to the point of the topic being discussed, I particularly like the way Megan expressed her thoughts. But I suspect negotiating this difficult terrain may be more challenging for a male, given the general lack of permission we have to express any deep feelings of grief and sadness especially. I do know however that if one can truly feel the pain one is suffering at any given moment there is often a transformation and a release from a good portion of the torment associated with it. But our culture at large virtually forbids any real expression of emotion, certainly in public and I think this carries very far over into our privates lives as well.

A big part of the despair one experiences in this world is not simply the existential pain of living but more often about falling victim to the dualistic judgments we make about ourselves. I am flat broke and unemployed right now and a business I've attempted to start seems to be non-viable. But I have food to eat. I have tea to drink in the morning. I have a warm room and a bed. I can take a walk or go for a bike ride. I can rest, read or surf the internet. Yet I am still in a great deal of psychic pain.

The pain is largely derived from the judgments I automatically make about myself for making some decisions that may not have been sound, for being naive, and for collapsing emotionally around the outer challenges I am facing. My ideal internalized view of myself requires that I be Bond-like in the face of adversity, smart like Trump about financial issues, independent....ie....never needing help from others, and "belong" to the imagined "middle class" society around me, that is obviously largely a mirage anyway, and the sense that my judgment is terrible, and I can't trust my instincts and follow my intuition in any way that ultimately alters my chronic set of difficulties.

Megan's suggestion of allowing/facing the Void has a lot of value I believe but at the same time is made difficult by some of the self judgments we make about ourselves. It is entirely possible that I am currently stuck in an internal process of PUNISHING myself for my supposed failures, in a way that duplicates my childhood pain, and when some external element finally presents itself that I interpret reflects and validates my self worth....I will reward myself by feeling good again. (Of course, this could be interpreted as merely falling into the same dualistic trap just from the other end of it...)

And while there is a certain physiological discomfort associated with depression/despair, the actual feeling if observed carefully is often not that uncomfortable...just sort of heavy and fragile, and even this level of discomfort may indeed just be "stuck chi" and potentially movable with some forms of energy work as mentioned above. Plus sometimes we just don't take care of ourselves very well in this state, eat the wrong things, sleep too little or too much, etc. and wind up adding a whole level of physical fatigue to the rest of our misery. It is the added layer of psychological torment that is what makes the experience of despair seem so intolerable.

Sorry if I meandered off topic in any way...by the way, I think Sylvia is for the most part genuine...just a bit mediocre in her abilities to interpret the larger picture and predicting the future is always a highly iffy enterprise. I'm sure that anyone truly wise and enlightened would never make it to a regular slot on a daytime tv show! Not even on Oprah...lol.