[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by mlc82

As long as you didn't already have something special planned with her that night (this could include an agreed upon "just you and me" night) and especially if you'll also see her plenty over the weekend, then just do your thing and let her throw her fit...

Yup - that's what I am doing. Go hang with some guys and let her throw a fit if she feels the need too. She actually is of the tom boy type but also has the insecurities and need to have me be clear enough to be reassured I'm not bloting (again). I have broken it off with her before and then we tried doing things as friends that eventually caused us to hook up and then sort be in a relationship again.

Originally Posted by JimOfferman;

You don't need us for that, you can just hire a parrot!
Seriously, though, it looks like you have already made up your mind. Maybe you should act on it?

The act of acting this out builds up in me and then there's some life (or death) event that gets in my way to go for moving out. Like I'm waiting for some perfect time to break up and move out - which may never exist - that perfect time to act.

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive;

May I offer you a female perspective?

Thanks for the ideas for working on the relationship. But I don't have it in me to try with her. I have spent many years with her in a mode of wondering what I'm doing with her and at times it's been good and fun. There's a rut now that we are in and I don't have attraction or affection, just maybe friend feelings on my side. Then it's hard because of all the time we have been around each other and activities we do still have in common.

Originally Posted by Angela;

Wolfgang, my guess is that your girlfriend is relating to you right now as a ghost -- you're not present for her, but you're not gone either. This can make a person feel really unstable and panicky and freaked out.

So true - and I'm tired of being a ghost and struggling to seem like I'm there when I'm thinking independantly a lot. It's one thing to want to be a little independant and really be into someone because a lot of the choices would be to spend time with the other in that case. But is just seems like I think of going and doing something on my own and not inviting her along - and she does the wanting to include me in everything she does.

Originally Posted by Angela;

You like her enough to part with her with lots of love, don't you, if that's what it comes to? Wouldn't that be better than parting with her with acrimony and regret? You'll be making it easier for both of you to go freely forth and find good matches for yourselves, free of leftover pain. Just be straight.

Hitting the nail on the head. How to part in a loving way - I would like that. And I hear myself telling myself to be true to myself which is like you say "be straight".

Originally Posted by ixmatus;

Make up or break up man, make it simple and decisive - it's what we do best.

A friend says this as : "sh$t or get off the pot"

Originally Posted by mlc82;

Good post. Women really would do better if they could just understand that for a lot of us guys, needy or irrationally insecure behaviour is SCARY. Ideally, in a relationship, I want a girl who loves being with me and would generally elect to spend her free time doing just that, but not one who NEEDS to or feels like something's wrong, can't concentrate on anything, etc.

I actually don't think women are generally that way. It's usually a dynamic that the guy is being aloof or (like me) not too into her and that drive the woman nuts. I see it as a pattern between two. The "needy or irrational insecure behaviour" is born of the other not being able to say "I really do want to relate to you". Instead there's one saying "I kind of want to be with you and it's ok enough but..." and the the other gets to feel nuts.

Originally Posted by mlc82;

Another thing I've learned from experience (and I have plenty to go, I'm only 25) is that no matter how much fun it can be, relationships can also be WORK. Again, I do not ever want to get married, I cannot clarify this enough, and I think this realization is partly why.

I understand about maintainence of relationships can seem like work - but it's my idea that it doesn't feel like work when there's a desire for keeping the connection close. The work will feel like joy because the connection gets stronger and closer and juicer. The motivation will be there automatically, instead of having to muster it up and "work" at it. And some of that is just deciding you want to be with someone and liking how the chemistry of the connection is that you wouldn't want to do anything that takes away from that.

Originally Posted by mlc82;

It requires a hell of a lot of thinking for most men if they want to figure out WHY their woman has apparently gone insane with something or another (the situation you described is perfect- breaking into tears or becoming angry over something that the man sees as silly or irrational, or just flat out over the top/exaggerated- you may feel justified, but to us men it really does appear that you've lost you mind).

I don't know - seems like it about expectations. Sometimes guys "forget" they have set up expectations and the women gets to feel the rug pulled out from under them.



Thanks for replies - just needed some venting,
Wolfie the ghost.