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Rogering Rabbit · 10-03-2007, 05:10 PM

John,

"So you believe that if someone really wants to be a billionaire they would not be able to do so, regardless of how hard they worked?"

I believe it is self-evidently true that not EVERYBODY would be able to be a billionaire, because that would require the total money supply to be about 10,000 times bigger than it is. I also believe not just ANYONE can be a billionaire through really wanting to be, because quite a large number of people really want to be billionaires, whereas only a tiny fraction are.

"However, just because another individual’s stories do not reflect your personal story does not mean that you would not be able to benefit from lessons they learned."
I would not argue with that. My point is rather that the underlying message appears to be "if you do this, you'll be fine", rather than "if you try this, it may work for you". The former I find objectionable; the latter I am open to.

"Depression to me seems more like a symptom than a cause. "
Ah, I'd refer to the whole complex of habits, assumptions, associations and emotional responses as "depression". Unless there's an underlying cause beyond this that you refer to, which I'm not aware of (short of being born).

"I am referring to a theory of how civilizations thousands of years ago would come up with such similar myths, tales, heroes, etc, when they would not have communicated with each other. Some believe that all humans share enough things in common on a cognitive level, that these ideas, beliefs, etc are a shared area of thought that is referred to as the universal consciousness."
I recognise that such patterns seem to transcend cultures, though wouldn't dare to draw any conclusions myself as to the why and how; possibly mitochondrial Eve told her children some stories that stuck around.
Moreover, you appeared to use it to point out that ALL humans share some traits. I would agree MANY humans share some traits, but this does not imply universality.

"With respect to your anger, are you saying that you get angry with yourself?"
I am furious at the thought I may be suffering needlessly - yet at the same time have given up on all the various avenues that promise redemption from my disease. Been there, done that, have the faded T-shirts.

"Is there another way you might be able to re-channel that energy so that it does not reinforce your depression, but instead reinforces your desire to no longer be depressed?"
Yes, I did manage that once, some 24 years ago and for five years or so had solid hope that things were getting better. I didn't manage a second time though; probably it's a trick that can only work once.

"What is the other side of the story you feel is unjustly dismissed?"
The story that is dismissed is the possibility that no, you will not overcome your depression in your lifetime even if you really try to. This is a demonstrable reality for large numbers of people. You may say this means they didn't try hard enough. I say that if so, the burden of proof for that claim, lies with you.

Regards,
Ron.

10-03-2007, 05:10 PM	#51 (permalink)
Rogering Rabbit Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5	If depression is a symptom, is life the disease? John, "So you believe that if someone really wants to be a billionaire they would not be able to do so, regardless of how hard they worked?" I believe it is self-evidently true that not EVERYBODY would be able to be a billionaire, because that would require the total money supply to be about 10,000 times bigger than it is. I also believe not just ANYONE can be a billionaire through really wanting to be, because quite a large number of people really want to be billionaires, whereas only a tiny fraction are. "However, just because another individual’s stories do not reflect your personal story does not mean that you would not be able to benefit from lessons they learned." I would not argue with that. My point is rather that the underlying message appears to be "if you do this, you'll be fine", rather than "if you try this, it may work for you". The former I find objectionable; the latter I am open to. "Depression to me seems more like a symptom than a cause. " Ah, I'd refer to the whole complex of habits, assumptions, associations and emotional responses as "depression". Unless there's an underlying cause beyond this that you refer to, which I'm not aware of (short of being born). "I am referring to a theory of how civilizations thousands of years ago would come up with such similar myths, tales, heroes, etc, when they would not have communicated with each other. Some believe that all humans share enough things in common on a cognitive level, that these ideas, beliefs, etc are a shared area of thought that is referred to as the universal consciousness." I recognise that such patterns seem to transcend cultures, though wouldn't dare to draw any conclusions myself as to the why and how; possibly mitochondrial Eve told her children some stories that stuck around. Moreover, you appeared to use it to point out that ALL humans share some traits. I would agree MANY humans share some traits, but this does not imply universality. "With respect to your anger, are you saying that you get angry with yourself?" I am furious at the thought I may be suffering needlessly - yet at the same time have given up on all the various avenues that promise redemption from my disease. Been there, done that, have the faded T-shirts. "Is there another way you might be able to re-channel that energy so that it does not reinforce your depression, but instead reinforces your desire to no longer be depressed?" Yes, I did manage that once, some 24 years ago and for five years or so had solid hope that things were getting better. I didn't manage a second time though; probably it's a trick that can only work once. "What is the other side of the story you feel is unjustly dismissed?" The story that is dismissed is the possibility that no, you will not overcome your depression in your lifetime even if you really try to. This is a demonstrable reality for large numbers of people. You may say this means they didn't try hard enough. I say that if so, the burden of proof for that claim, lies with you. Regards, Ron.