[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

I would rather have hoped my choice of words would instead have communicated my admiration for evolution as a process.

I completely agree with your explanation on purely scientific terms. Scientifically speaking, then yes, evolution is strictly driven by accidental/incidental mutations to organisms resulting in more advantages traits and thus becoming more fit for survival.

However, I am not speaking as a scientist.

Jim, I'd like to apologise for not considering your words in the manner they were intended. It's hypocritical of me to except you to be accurate to my satisfaction when I don't do the same for others (not to mention it being selfish). So while it seems you didn't take offense I'm nonetheless sorry for how I approached this discussion.

Originally Posted by williamhessian

With the knowledge of death, comes the desire to avoid it.

I agree.

Originally Posted by williamhessian

we may have the chance to change all of that, and actually survive death. Yet still, there are those of you who choose death over life. And use the words "accepting it" to describe it. I consider that "giving up".

I suspect much of it is driven by spiritual beliefs. The belief that there is something after death. And yet I read that the people who display most fear just before dying are those who are religious (usually Christian). But since I don't remember where I read that, take it for what it's worth.

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

I accept that my eventual demise is the price I pay for living. I understand that my life needs to end some day, so that there may be more life after I am gone.

(After all, if we'd all live forever, pretty soon we'd have to stop producing babies...)

I can understand that, but I personally refuse to accept those limits. Of course that doesn't mean I'll go having babies even if it means disastrous over-population, but I would do what I could to allow us all to cope with the population increase.

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

People who have accepted death do amazing things, like climb Mount Everest or venture into space. I have a hard time seeing that as giving up on life.

I don't understand why you equate acceptance of death with doing amazing those amazing things?

Originally Posted by Buddy

Nonsense. Death of the material body is inevitable. To NOT accept this is delusion and denial.

Depends on the timescale. Death of my body within the next 50 years is not inevitable. What we're pondering here is what it would be like if technology allowed that timescale to be extended 100 to 1000 years. Not necessarily indefinitely.

Originally Posted by Mayo

BTW only an idiot goes into needless certain death(like going with 1000ccm motorbike 150-200mph on the freeway endangering other human life), to really feel alive you should be brave enough to save someones life and get certainly killed in the process... that is the point of risking life, not the cheap thrill but the higher cause!

Sure, valid example of stupid thrill seeking. But what about a master mountain climber, one who has trained for decades, gradually increasing his ability to the point where climbing a difficult mountain is no more dangerous than crossing a busy street (when the traffic light grants him right of way)...

Originally Posted by chaostheory

i personally have no interest in having my physical body live forever. People don't seem to take into account that this means no matter how crippled or injured one may become, that death is not an option. Noone ever said you'd live forever in perfect health, never get sick and never become injured. They just assume that this immortality makes you injure-proof. What if you got in an accident and became paralyzed or would suffer in pain...and then never die? Would you want to live forever then?

What Sam said. But also, I suspect that life extension would be a choice. No one would force life-extension on someone who would only suffer more.

Aside from that, the ethics of euthanasia would have to be re-evaluated if life expectancy was much greater than it is today.

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Nope, still not buying... I'll trade my 20s looks for the chance to see children grow up any day. Call me old fashioned .

Why not try for both?

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

There was a book I read that addressed the whole concept of immortality, from a purely physical sense, saying that if we were immortal, then everything would become trivial. Whole empires rising and falling would be nothing in the great vast infinity. In a spiritual way, it is far different, because of the veil we put over ourselves when we incarnate. From a purely physical point of view, I would find living forever would just make it so easy to procrastinate. There would be no urgency to anything, so therefore, what would be the point of doing anything? No matter what, you'd still be here. I just hope you wouldn't get life in prison.

I have to ask if you read the previous replies where we addressed these issues? I'd like to hear your response to our responses to similar objections made by others before.

Originally Posted by williamhessian

i personally don't see what anyone would get out of climbing mount everest. its like making up a meaningless task to accomplish. but that is just my personal opinion. risking your life does not equal living your life to the fullest.

It's a physical challenge. Why do people run around a track many times? Or swim up and down a pool?

btw Will, I'm just quoting you because it's relevant to my point, but I'm not directing my criticism at you (well, not just you... just so you know... )

I think many people grossly misunderstand so called "extreme" sports. It's as if they think an average person one day decides to sail around the world, then goes out to do it. These people train extensively for years... Decades even. We don't consider a pilot to be risking his life, nor ourselves when we take a flight somewhere, yet there we are, thousands of meters above the Earth... What about martial artists who throw punches and kicks at each other with bone breaking force? How is that any different to an extreme bicyclist who might break a few bones if he's not careful. Also see my previous comment about the master mountainclimber.